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  • Yes I actually do get to change it. Why is this so important to you? A wikipedia page is here to provide facts, not theories. A death scene montage for the purpose to sexually arouse, and a lesbian theory that isn't even based on actual evidence doesn't belong here. Quit being foolish.

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    • I've had to edit this post multiple times just so you don't get the wrong idea about me and my intentions, which you already have.

      Also, it's "Shepherd", not "Sheppard".

      Let's go over some other points:

      1. This is Wikia, not Wikipedia. The sole purpose of wikis aren't simply to "provide factual information only", a lot of wikis are for analysis. Even Wikipedia contains analysis. In other words, the purpose of a wiki is to convey information, not simply facts. A wiki's purpose to "cover facts only" is merely your belief. Theories and speculation (which are a part of analysis) are allowed on many Wikias, as long as it's marked as speculation and not presented as factual, there is sufficient evidence (although what qualifies as that is subjective), and isn't too long (although what qualifies as "too long" is also subjective). If there is a dispute over a theory, then the proper course of action is to talk it out with the editor and try to reach a consensus, not resort to name-calling as you have.

      DaniW2

      2. Daniella being a possible lesbian theory is well-known in the fanbase, such as the title of this video, a commentor saying "all those lesbian moments" and this overview. I strongly disagree when you claim there is no sufficient evidence - perhaps the most explicit being getting close to Fiona where they almost kiss and entering Fiona's room to stare at her body and feel her up. If you think the Daniella = possible lesbian theory is too long, or perhaps has iffy content, then consider editing it to improve it instead of deleting it entirely. I am curious: is the idea of Daniella being a lesbian upsetting for you? Uncomfortable?

      3. As I mentioned in a previous edit which you either didn't see or totally ignored, not all death videos are meant to "sexually arouse" people - your view is judgemental and a very narrow-minded view of the intentions of their uploaders. Only one of the five videos you recently removed is a death compilation video, and it is not labeled as a "ryona" video by the uploader. A month ago, I even deleted the videos with "ryona" in their titles where Fiona is wearing sexualized clothing for you (and so people in the future wouldn't get the wrong idea about this wiki or my intents). I was trying to be nice and considerate to you there and reach a compromise, but apparently, it is still not good enough for you.

      Trying to give the reader "sexual pleasure" (or any pleasure) is not my intent when I put death videos on wikis. Here are some of the reasons why I put death videos on wikis:

      • This is more of a philosophical reason. They are a part of the game's content and I feel society treats death like a taboo topic which we prefer to not think about, and perhaps feel discouraged to show or talk about. In my eyes, it's one of the biggest elephants in the room there is. But is such an outlook healthy? In reality, we live in a world where people can die at any moment, so being exposed to death can help us remember to live, enjoy life while we're still alive, and cherish our loved ones for the short finite time we have on this planet. Watching fictional characters die, and perhaps desensitization to death, can help create empathy for the protagonist which could even extend to animals and people in real life, and help us cope when death actually happens. I think the idea that "witnessing suffering creates empathy" is possible. When I was a child, my experiences with death were very traumatic because I felt society and my environment did not prepare me for it. The death of my pet was one of the worst feelings I ever had, and I cried myself to sleep for many nights. This is one reason why I feel strongly when it comes to the idea of preparation for death.
      • Death montages can help the player on what not to do (such as not walking in front of the wall with eyes, being careful when interacting with objects in a certain room, etc). I'm very into "strategy" tips when it comes to video games. Instead of listing every possible moment where Fiona can die on every article, a death compilation does the job.
      • They warn the reader what sort of mature content exists in the game so people who know nothing about the game are aware what they're getting into and see if they can handle it. If you can't handle the death compilation, then there's a 99% chance you can't handle the game. If you are so upset by it, then simply don't watch it. The video title called "death scenes" should be sufficient to know what you're getting into, and it doesn't give you the right to delete it for everyone else who are interested in what sort of mature content the game contains and see if they can handle it.

      The other videos are meant to showcase the hide-and-seek gameplay and stalker chase gameplay, which are core components of the gameplay. This is a hide-and-seek survival horror game, and you're actually offended that the article for the game showcases some of the hide-and-seek and survival gameplay to the point where you delete them.

      This is a wiki that, by its nature, deals with mature content, as mentioned by the mature content warning on the front page and the game's 17+ ESRB rating. Contrary to what you seem to believe (as you implied in a previous edit), the purpose of a wiki (especially a wiki focused on horror video games of all things) is NOT to make you feel "safe" and "comfortable". Try telling that to Saw Wiki or something. By your logic, we should remove information/videos/photos on things like war, the Holocaust, suicide, animal cruelty, serial killers, racism, just so you can feel "safe" and "comfortable" and sleep at night. However, the idea of "safety" is a bit of an illusion. I assume you refer to the idea of "safety of the mind", as viewing content on a wiki is not the same as "physical safety", such as a killer entering your house to murder you in your sleep. What do you mean when you want a wiki to be "safe"? How can a wiki be "safe"? Does this mean a wiki can be "dangerous" then in your eyes? You claim you want a wiki to be "clean" and "safe", but I am not sure what this entails. I am intrigued and suspect you mean "anything that makes me feel uncomfortable on a wiki should be removed", a stance I vehemently disagree with, especially if the content covered is naturally uncomfortable.

      Haunting Ground is not an extremely graphic game at all, it's not like you see Fiona's intestines or anything. All you see in the game is Fiona being physically beaten and blood. If something happens, like Fiona's throat is slashed, or Daniella pierces Fiona, the game doesn't show her wound. Even in certain death scenes, like the iron maiden and rock grinder, the camera angle never shows Fiona's body being damaged and all the action is off-screen. Don't act like I put Saw-level content on this wiki. Haunting Ground is one of the tamest horror games out there, especially compared to things like the eye scene from Dead Space.

      4. Call me "stupid" again and act rude to me instead of like a mature editor, and expect a block. Maybe you should re-examine your motives before you go on a horror-focused wiki and complain about horror content on it, as well as call someone (who works very hard on trying to make it the best wiki it can be, having poured hours and hours of sweat into it) "foolish" and "stupid". Perhaps calling me a stupid fool and possibly insulting others in the past has helped you experience some catharsis with your frustration, but I can assure you that name-calling others is not the best way when it comes to Internet arguments, as well as dealing with people and winning people over to your side. All it really does is hurt their feelings, make them feel agitated and less likely to help you out, or piss them off. Be more tact with the way you interact with people. Perhaps I'm going through a rough time or one of my family members recently died. As Monika from Doki Doki puts it:

      "The problem with arguing is that each person sees their opinion as the superior one. That's kind of stating the obvious, but it affects the way they try to get their point across. Let's say you really like a certain movie, right? If someone comes along and tells you the movie sucks, because it did X and Y wrong... Doesn't that make you feel kind of personally attacked? It's because by saying that, it's like they're implying that you have bad taste. And once emotions enter the picture, it's almost guaranteed that both people will be left sour. But it's all about language! If you make everything as subjective-sounding as possible, then people will listen to you without feeling attacked. You could say 'I'm personally not a fan of it' and 'I felt I'd like it more if it did X and Y'...things like that. It even works when you're citing facts about things. If you say 'I read on this website that it works like this'...Or if you admit that you're not an expert on it... Then it's much more like you're putting your knowledge on the table, rather than forcing it onto them. If you put in an active effort to keep the discussion mutual and level, they usually follow suit. Then, you can share your opinions without anyone getting upset from just a disagreement. Plus, people will start seeing you as open-minded and a good listener! It's a win-win, you know?"

      5. This is important to me because it seems as if you're trying to hide/deny the game's suggestive/uncomfortable content for illogical reasons, and I have strong feelings when it comes to the idea of censorship.

      Haunting Ground is one of my favorite games of all time, and Fiona and Daniella are two of my favorite characters in video games, so this also contributes to why I feel strongly about this.

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    • Jesus Christ, you didn't have to write me an essay.

      I'll start off saying this; I shouldn't have called you names. That was uncalled for, and for that I apologize. As for the rest of your post...what am I suppose to say to that? I am allowed to make changes as I see fit, no matter how illogical they may seem to you. You don't own this site, so chill the fuck out with that attitude of yours.

      The Daniella/Fiona theory has no weight. How can she be a lesbian? She doesn't feel pleasure or pain, she said it herself. 

      And the ryona death videos are disgusting, and I am allowed to have a problem with them, and keep them off the wiki page. Sure, obviously not all death scenes videos are made for that purpose. But the ones that are don't belong here. Period. As for the rest of the videos I deleted;  They were by complete accident. Whoops.

      I can handle anything; gore, sexual themes, prejudice, death. But I draw the line with certain things like these. It's not that I can't handle seeing characters getting killed, it's about those people who get off on that kind of stuff, that rubs me the wrong way.

      Don't agree? Don't care. We'll have to agree to disagree.

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    • I'm sorry my last post was long, I'm very thorough and it's a habit of mine. You should understand that if someone feels attacked or is in a position in which they look particularly nasty, they would want to clarify and explain themselves. I accept your apology about the name-calling.

      You're allowed to make *certain* changes... within reason. "As I see fit" is extremely broad and vague, but if someone has an issue with your changes, you are supposed to properly communicate with the editor and try to reach a consensus. While you are allowed to make changes as you see fit (editing for the first time), you are not always allowed to keep them, especially if the consensus is against your edits.

      I may not "own" this site, but I am an admin on this wiki, and it is my duty to oversee the wiki's development and monitor changes. It doesn't help that you made that change to Daniella's article without an edit summary.

      You seem to be confused as to what sexual orientation entails. Just because Daniella doesn't feel sexual pleasure, it doesn't mean she isn't attracted to others (whether it be sexual desire, physical desire, emotional desire, etc). Daniella still could theoretically be attracted to men and women, she just wouldn't feel any sexual pleasure while having intercourse. Lesbians can be asexual.[1] Lesbianism encompasses more than just sexuality, it's also about love, emotions and feelings. I would like to re-add the theory - we can change it so that it makes more sense.

      You are allowed to be disgusted by the ryona videos, but you are not allowed to remove them for everyone else without a consensus and act like your word is final, which is the mentality you seem to have. Since I agreed to remove the ryona videos so people don't get the wrong idea, a consensus on that has been reached. Would you have an issue if I restored louischou's death video to the Haunting Ground article? It's not fetished or has "ryona" in the title. I would also like to add a link to it on Fiona's article, but not as a video thumbnail so it doesn't seem like we're trying to say "HEY, LOOK AT THIS VIDEO OF FIONA DYING, COME WATCH!" I feel this is a decent compromise.

      Unfortunately, if I don't agree, you do have to care if we're trying to reach a consensus, and by "care", I mean "be considerate of other's opinions". Neither you or me live in a world where we get to say "Fuck everyone else's opinion, I do what I want". There's a difference between "agreeing to disagree" and that.

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    • Hello, I just registered a few minutes ago. English is not my native language, but I know there are 2 strategy guides by CAPCOM.

      21645339971235 205
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    • A FANDOM user
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  • I saw the information about Mary having a brother who was never ever mentioned before and read Hifumi Kouno's e-mail which was the source of that information. I thought it was very odd that a character apparently very central to Mary's interest in the occult was never in the game, so I tweeted at Kouno, and him being the awesome and kind creator that he is, replied within a minute. Turns out "the birth of his brother" is a typo referring to "the birth of the brothers", Bobby and Dan. The tweet is in Japanese but his words are very clear, so anyone who can read Japanese can confirm:

    https://twitter.com/hifumi_kono/status/943850638403821568

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  • Officially, there is nothing that states Bates is the spirit of Alyssa's deceased twin.  The game even goes out of its way to mention this, stating that his exact identity is unknown and that he may be an evil spirit haunting the Maxwell family.  In fact, Alyssa's twin is stated to be female, which makes it all the more unlikely that is who Bates is.  Why has the page been changed to provide misinformation? 

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    • Eh, whatever. It's just that I read that and it made you seem like you believed someone deliberately changed it in order to "provide misinformation". A better way of saying that is "why is this error on the page?", because the former is almost like "why did someone put this misinformation on it?" Let's move on.

      Also, I meant Maxwell earlier, not Allen since Allen rescued Alyssa (it's been quite a while since I last played the game). Still, you said "I don't think Maxwell would have buried his children if there was even a chance they were not cursed." Even if both twins were female, Maxwell is kind of an asshole who buried the children anyway due to an urban legend, so I doubt he would've spared them if they were opposite sex. He's a bad daddy.

      The game is indeed vague and confusing, but don't rule out the possibility that they are opposite sex twins, since I feel it only creates even more plot holes.

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    • No one really knows what Maxwell's normal personality is like.  The Cerebral Toxin plan was said to be his revenge against humanity.  Given that he seems to have it all, the only thing that makes sense is that this was spurred on by having to bury his own children alive.  That's why I don't think he would have done it if there was any excuse not to, such as one of the kids being a boy.  And we can't say his fears were completely unfounded, since one of the children really does have a murderous alter-ego.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Hi, just to ask about edits. Congenital insensitvity to pain is a very specific type of hypoalgesia, and you have to be born with it hence congential, I'm not an expert or medical personel, but from what I've read up about it hypoalgesia is a general medical terrm for inability to feel pain, and not all are hereditary. SInce we don't know if Daniella suffers from the congential type or not , listing it seems too specific and hypoalgesia by itself covers the congential insensititvity type anyway, CIP also would mean she has never felt pain (and never could), yet she groans as if in pain sometimes  when attacked and gasps/groans and looks shocked for a second when the glass shard impales her....with CIP she wouldn't be capable of any pain sensation, no matter how extreme the circumstances, while other types can vary. 

    Another question I wanted to ask is, Ugo is a homoncolus and this is confirmed in game, Ayla was the human woman he fell in love and ran off with, if Fiona is their child how is she not a mixture of both?

    not arguing with the changes, just asking because I don't fully understand. 

    Thanks,

    Rain

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  • Puttng this here as I don't believe you can respond to edits. As for the status of Riccardo being Fiona's father, while he certainly did not raise or hold any care towards her, from a biological standpoint, he is exactly that. They are clones; the DNA they possess is virtually the same and contains no variation. Because of this, Riccardo (and even Lorenzo) is Fiona's father as both he and Ugo are identical copies of the parent clone. The single difference being Riccardo never held onto the Azoth. It doesn't matter that Ugo was the one to impregnate Ayla either, nor would it if Riccardo, Lorenzo or any of the previous thirteen generations of clones did so instead since they are all the same 'person' from the viewpoint of nature (albeit at different stages of life).

    In my oipinion, it's this fact that makes Riccardo's sexual interest in Fiona and the D ending much more sinister and depraved. And why I feel it is inaccurate to call him Fiona's uncle or Ugo's brother as they are all carbon copies of the original Belli.

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    • I think it depends on what your definition of a "father" is. It may ultimately be a matter of opinion, such as if someone who is "trans" is really the gender they identify with, even with/without surgery.

      You claim that they possess the same DNA with no variation. But where do you know that? That's not claimed anywhere in the game. Some clones can be genetically modified. It reminds me of this scene in Xenosaga which ponders the philosophical question "Their DNA only has to differ by 0.1% to make them different people, right?"

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    • In a social sense,  he is nothing like a 'father' at all as many would define and so would be up for debate as you say, but in a biological sense, I believe he certainly is considered as one.

      I claim the DNA has no variation because that is how the cloning process/asexual reproduction functions. There is only one parent so there is no fusion of gametes and genetic mixing does not occur. The offspring is identical to the parent (a clone), from the chromosomes to each individul allele as there is nothing to change them. This is seen in many species of plants and their cuttings. Fiona breaks this pattern as she is conceived from sexual reproducton between Ayla and Ugo, breaking the cycle of cloning. There's nothing in the game to suggest Riccardo is genetically different than Ugo.

      Considering their personalities, interactions and intentions, the Belli's are all different, yet if we were to base purely upon biology/DNA then they are only just one person if it is exactly the same which I believe is a reliable assumption based on the game's information.

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    • You don't know if there was no mixing or genetic variation or genetic alteration, tho. The Azoth probably changes the DNA structure, and Ugo was born with it and Riccardo without. Also, there is that scene where Fiona finds a woman in a test tube, and I imagine they may be kidnapped woman meant to birth Ugo/Riccardo. Ugo and Riccardo may not share the same birth mother, and how they were created may be very different.

      You may say "there's nothing in the game to suggest Riccardo is genetically different than Ugo", but you have no proof that Riccardo and Ugo ARE genetically the same.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • You should download the press kit from the Remothered site, the file called "game catalogue" is full of concept art for the new version. It looks like all of the characters from the original remothered are still in the game including Ann/Anna, Laura/Lauryn and Lotte/Lindsey, albiet Anna has been changed to Elisa and Lindsey has been completely redesigned. The Baroni family is still in it too, although the name has been changed to Ashmann. Bobby Baroni is now Gabrial Ashmann and he looks creepier than ever. Likewise, Simon Barrows/Steven Baroni is now Steven Ashmann, but his character is now playing second fiddle to Richard Felton. Jennifer may also be taking on the role of a stalker at somepoint if the full 3 minute trailer is any indication.

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    • I put in an adoption request. Upon further investigation, the only admin on the wiki hasn't even been active since 2012 o.O

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    • Good. If you need a referral, I'll volunteer. I support you being an admin.

      Just be sure to get all the info here to there:

      http://clocktower.wikia.com/wiki/Remothered:_Tormented_Fathers

      http://remothered.wikia.com/wiki/Remothered:_Tormented_Fathers

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Would you mind sharing your thoughts in regards to the debate that's currently happening on the NightCry talk page between myself and Wynber?

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  • As of today when I try to edit a page I ambombarded with error messages and have to disable pop ups to be able to back out. I am trying to add some new screenshots I found from the prologue and a later chapter where you play as Rooney.

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  • I've noticed that there is no page for or even mention of Don't Cry Jennifer Forums (the only Clock Tower forum in existance that I know of) I was wondering if I could add something to the wiki about it?

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    • Not much point, since this wiki is an archive and I feel everything on it has been archived here already. Thanks anyway, tho.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Okay, the image is a GIF image, yet the image depicting Jennifer being killed by a mirror doesn't seem to actually show her death, just her looking at it. Are you entirely sure that you actually got it to work as a gif. Can you describe what exactly caused her to die?

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